PJ Black on Re-Signing With ROH, the Nexus and Life as a Daredevil

Fred: We have a very special guest via Skype who has wrestled in WWE, TNA and everywhere from South Africa to America. He’s been with ROH for a while, and he just signed a new deal to stay with Ring of Honor for another year. We’re talking to the man formerly known as Justin Gabriel, better known today as PJ Black. PJ, how’s it going?

PJ Black: I’m good, man. Thank you for having me. Just a correction: It’s a multiyear deal with Ring of Honor. Last year was just one year, but I signed a multiyear extension. And I’ve wrestled in 64 countries now.

Fred: Sixty-four countries and a multiyear deal. ROH fans are definitely going to get a kick out of that. Why was this the right time to stick with Ring of Honor?

PJ Black: For the first time in my life, I actually made a pros and cons list, because I had some other offers on the table. There are some great companies and some great talent out there. What a great time in wrestling. But all the signs pointed to Ring of Honor. They gave me everything I wanted and more, and creative freedom was a big thing at the top of my list, which they were fine with. We have a new booking team, and if you look at the roster, they re-signed guys like Bandido, the Briscoes and Flip. That automatically told me ROH is going to go big this year, and I wanted to be a part of that.

Fred: A lot of people may not know you’re a second-generation star, and you were also a model.

PJ Black: A long time ago, in my early 20s.

Fred: Growing up, did you want to become a wrestler, or did you want to go into modeling or acting? Was there any pressure to carry on the family legacy?

PJ Black: No. I decided when I was 8 years old that this is what I was going to do full time. My friends and family laughed at me, and my teachers at school were on my case, but I stuck with it, and here I am.

Fred: Did you ever think you’d stick with modeling instead?

PJ Black: It went up and down. I took a break from wrestling for three years. I lived in Europe, went to college, got my degree and was working on my master’s, and I didn’t want anything to do with wrestling at the time, because my dad passed away in ’99. Long story. I was living in England, and I walked into an indie show where AJ Styles was wrestling Jonny Storm, and I was like, “Wow, how did I just walk away from wrestling?” I immediately started training again and worked the independents in Europe, in London especially. Then I went back to South Africa for three years, and when I landed, I said, “I’m going to put all my energy into this. I’m going to train every day, study tapes and get my body into the best shape it’s ever been, and see if I can get signed.” I really wanted to go to New Japan at the time, but it was very hard with a third-world country passport. Then I got signed by WWE, and I wasn’t going to turn that down. I guess the rest is history.

Fred: They say that with great athletes, the game slows down as you get older and more experienced. When did you really start to get it?

PJ Black: I was lucky to be born into this. I started refereeing matches when I was 11, and I understood the business, because my dad had a wrestling company and a couple of schools. But you learn something new every day. Right before Eddie Guerrero died, he told me he still learned something new every day, and that was awesome to me, because to me personally, he was the best in-ring performer. Only if you’re an in-ring performer will you understand what I mean by that. Every year, something clicks. I was never a promo guy, but I feel like promos are one of my strong points now, and I enjoy them. I like watching old-school promos and video packages, because that’s what got me hooked on wrestling.

Two years ago, I broke both my legs BASE jumping, and when I was in the hospital, I feel like that’s when everything really clicked. I was in a terrible mindset at the time, and I said, “If I can heal my legs and my finger and especially my mind, I’m back at square one, and I’m going to put all my energy into this and make this year count.” 2019 was a good year, and I feel like 2020 is going to be fantastic. Look at Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker and my dad, who was a wrestler too. They all did their best work between 40 and 44, so I’m thinking I’m not even in my prime yet. I’m very excited for that.

Fred: Is 40 the new 30 in pro wrestling? You’re knocking on the door, and you’ve got AJ Styles, and Edge just returned. These are guys who look great and put on great matches. AEW just had DDP wrestle at 63, and he had a hell of a showing. Does that inspire you to keep going?

PJ Black: Totally. Between about 40 and 44, my dad did some of his best work in and out of the ring, in business and just in life, and he said that was the best time of his life, too. If I can follow in his footsteps, I’ll be stoked. If wrestlers can keep their bodies healthy, that’s the peak, between 40 and 45. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention Chris Jericho, who’s done great, and the current ROH World Champion, PCO, who I believe is 52 years young and completely reinvented himself the last few years. What an exciting time in wrestling right now.

Fred: When you got signed, there was no NXT as we know it. It was FCW, and you eventually went into the original NXT, which was more of a pseudo-reality show with challenges. Looking back, do you wish they’d poured even a quarter of today’s resources into developmental back then?

PJ Black: It was a different time, and wrestling keeps evolving. We pitched a lot of the things they’re doing now. I was FCW champion right before NXT, and I asked, “Why doesn’t the FCW champ pop up on Raw or SmackDown, or have matches, or at least sit at ringside and watch some of the guys?” I pitched a cruiserweight show years ago, too. I’m happy to see they’re finally following through on it, but I kind of wish it had been a little different back then. That’s wrestling. It’ll keep evolving. Can you imagine five years from now?

Fred: It’s nice to see ROH locking down TV, AEW just had its TV deal extended, and ROH will probably expand to more markets as Sinclair acquires stations. It’s about 10 years since the original NXT, which led to the creation of the Nexus. You guys had a hell of a run for the short time you were together, and you and some others had standout careers, but part of me feels it’s almost a lost generation of top guys, with a lot of money left on the table. Do you feel that way?

PJ Black: Totally, and that was a timing thing. In the back of my mind, I always think we’re going to have one more run, because the Nexus never even had a WrestleMania moment. Maybe that’s just me holding on, but I feel like fans deserve it, too. We need some closure, even if it’s one short run. I never say never. In fact, I’m very confident it will happen, probably not in the next year or two, but it’s definitely going to happen.

Fred: After the Nexus, you formed the Corre with Heath Slater, Ezekiel Jackson and Wade Barrett. The logo and shirts admittedly seemed a little wacky, but I liked the group. Things started out well, but it never gained the momentum the Nexus did. What went wrong?

PJ Black: That’s a tough question. In the beginning, we got no direction. They basically told us, “Go out there and do this.” Then they came back and asked, “Why didn’t you guys do this?” Well, that wasn’t what you asked us to do. There was a communication gap at that time between the agents, producers, creative and talent. Maybe that’s a terrible excuse, but it did feel weird, maybe because the Nexus run was so big and so unique. In wrestling, it’s very hard to come up with something unique, because storylines are borrowed from other companies or the old school. Dr. Tom used to say all the time, “What’s old is new, and what’s new is old.” I feel like the Nexus was completely unique, so no matter where we went after it, it was going to feel kind of stale in a way.

Fred: Not to be an armchair psychologist, but watching you lately in Ring of Honor, you just seem happier. When I’m watching PJ Black right now, it’s more you than Justin Gabriel ever was. Is that a fair assessment?

PJ Black: Definitely, 100 percent. More people know Justin Gabriel, but he was only on TV for six or seven years. I’ve been PJ Black since I was 15, so that’s almost 20 years of my career. My goal is to let people know who the real PJ Black is, and he’s a completely different person. With a little creative freedom, I think people will really like the character.

Fred: What would you say is the biggest misconception about PJ Black?

PJ Black: That’s tough. A lot of people see what wrestlers post on social media, and in wrestling, people aren’t sure whether to play their character on social media, be themselves or blur that line. I’m always me. All the daredevil stuff you see is what I really do outside of wrestling, and that’s the way I live my life. I’m not a fake person. Obviously, when I’m playing a heel, I’m a completely different person, but for the most part, what you see is me in real life.

Fred: What’s the biggest difference between the locker room culture in WWE when you were there and Ring of Honor now?

PJ Black: It’s completely different. In Ring of Honor, there are a lot of guys I’ve known for a long time, because the wrestling community is very small. I was there the first day Mark Haskins started training, when he was just a kid, so it’s cool to see those guys become big superstars. The WWE thing was very corporate at the time, but that changes, too. When Survivor Series was here in Los Angeles a couple of years ago, I walked down to say hi to everybody, and the locker room had completely changed from what I was used to just four or five years earlier. Ring of Honor has spent a lot of money acquiring new talent and changed up a lot of the production value, and it’s a really fun locker room to be a part of right now.

Fred: There was a lot of celebration about AEW forming and ROH and New Japan expanding, but some people figured it would come at the expense of the indies. From all accounts, the indies are still doing well. What’s your assessment of the independent scene?

PJ Black: I love it. There are so many companies out there with fantastic talent. My favorite thing in wrestling is wrestling someone I’ve never wrestled before, and that’s why I like the indies. It’s a great time to be a pro wrestler, but it’s an even better time to be a fan.

Fred: Before we let you go, some quick hits to get to know you better. Favorite cheat meal?

PJ Black: It changes weekly, but right now, ice cream.

Fred: Favorite opponent?

PJ Black: So many, for so many different reasons, but right now, Bandido. He’s one of the most fun guys to watch, and I love working with him. He’s in his early 20s, and I think he’s going to be the next Eddie Guerrero if he keeps his body healthy.

Fred: You took the words right out of my mouth. Favorite TV show and movie?

PJ Black: “The Rock” with Sean Connery is one of my all-time favorites, along with “The Boondock Saints” and the original “Point Break” with Keanu Reeves. Those are my top three. My favorite TV show right now is “Money Heist” on Netflix. It’s probably one of the most well-written shows I’ve seen in a long time. I enjoy “Schitt’s Creek,” too. I don’t own a TV, so I watch a few things here and there on Netflix.

Fred: I think I already know this answer, but if you weren’t a wrestler, you would be what?

PJ Black: A doctor or a cult leader.

Fred: Really? I was expecting a stuntman or a daredevil.

PJ Black: I know that’s what everyone thinks, but I actually have a master’s degree, and I was thinking about getting my Ph.D., legit, so people can just call me doctor. When I got injured a few years ago, that was my go-to. I was going to get my Ph.D. and be a physio, maybe a team doctor for one of the big wrestling companies.

Fred: Props to you. That’s not an easy feat. Craziest thing you’ve ever done? Outside of wrestling, you’re a daredevil who enjoys taking risks. It’s very admirable, but it’s also very scary for bystanders.

PJ Black: People always ask me, “Isn’t that scary?” For me, it’s a weird form of meditation, if that makes any sense. It actually calms me down and relaxes me, because otherwise my head is going a million miles an hour. As for the craziest things I’ve done, I don’t know if I can tell you the stories, because the cops would be knocking at my door.

Fred: Well, I’m glad you’re here in one piece. Funniest Nexus member?

PJ Black: Heath. I have a funny story. When we won the tag titles the first time, we used to share rooms and travel together, and Heath always sleeps with the TV on, so in the middle of the night, I’d wake up and switch it off. That night, I woke up, switched the TV off, and Heath wasn’t there, but he heard me, so he came running out of the bathroom wearing nothing but the tag title around his waist, with a cigar in one hand and a hair dryer in the other, blow-drying his hair while smoking the cigar and yelling, “We did it, baby! We did it!” That sums up Heath, because that’s what he’s like in real life every single day.

Fred: So the Heath Slater we see on TV is just a small sample of what he’s like in real life?

PJ Black: Pretty much. I wish they would take the handcuffs off him or let him write some of his own stuff, because that guy is super talented and so funny. People would really get behind the real Heath Slater. You can make magic with him in the ring no matter what the storyline or the outcome is, because he’s so good at reacting. These days, a lot of matches are totally choreographed, and he’s one of the few guys who can go in without planning anything and have a really good match. In acting, they say that instead of acting, you react to what the other person does, and in wrestling that’s kind of a lost art. Heath is one of the best at it.

Fred: Most awkward moment in the ring?

PJ Black: I’ve had quite a few. When I got signed to WWE, I was doing a stripper gimmick with see-through trunks held together by belt buckles, and in one match, the buckles broke, and I wasn’t wearing any underwear at the time.

Fred: That’s definitely in the awkward category. On a higher note, what’s your career-defining moment so far?

PJ Black: That’s tough. I’ve been doing this for 25 years, and just breaking into the business in 1996 or ’97, I didn’t think I’d be where I am right now. Obviously, headlining SummerSlam with the Nexus was fantastic, along with all the people I got to work with. I watched Edge and John Cena growing up, and then I got to work with those guys. Edge just made his comeback at the Royal Rumble. He retired as World Heavyweight Champion and went undefeated for a very long time, and I think the last person to beat him on TV was me, so I’ll definitely keep that as one of the high points of my career. He’s a great worker and a Hall of Famer, but with a whole new generation of wrestlers since then, I think he’s slightly underrated. Can you name a bad Edge match or a bad Edge promo? He’s the total package.

Fred: What’s the best piece of advice you’d give anybody aspiring to be a pro wrestler?

PJ Black: Follow your dreams, man. Don’t let anybody tell you that you can’t do it or that you’re not capable, or that you need a backup plan. It’s always good to have a backup plan, but when you have one, you tend not to put all your energy and effort into the one thing you really want to achieve. If you do something you love, you’ll never work a day in your life. Unfortunately, a lot of people never get there, but I feel like the universe will reward you eventually if you put in the time, effort and energy. It took me 10 or 11 years to get signed. I also feel like a lot of parents push their dreams on their children, and that’s not cool. Obviously, you respect your parents and listen to them, but only you will know what your purpose and your dream are.

Fred: A year from now, where do you hope to be in your career?

PJ Black: I want to hold a couple of championships, and I want to go to New Japan. I think my style would fit in there perfectly, and Ring of Honor works with New Japan. I’m one of the few guys who have won championships in every promotion I’ve been to. I haven’t won anything in ROH just yet, but I can see it happening this year for sure.

Fred: Where can fans find you and all your exploits online?

PJ Black: I’m very active on Instagram at pj450, and at PJBlack.com you can find merch and links to all my social media accounts and my YouTube channel. Thank you so much for having me.