Shane Helms on Chinlock for Chuck, His Comeback and Hurricane Memories

Fred: What’s up? This is Fred Richani of TheSportsCourier.com, joined by my co-host JGeorge Estrella, and we have a very special guest, former WWE Superstar Shane “Hurricane” Helms. Shane, thank you so much for joining us. Most importantly, we’re here to talk about Chinlock for Chuck and the great benefit you’re doing for your friend Chuck Coates. Can you explain what that’s all about?

Shane Helms: Without a doubt. Chuck Coates did a lot of stuff with WCW and the WWF back in the day, what you’d call enhancement talent, but a step above. He’d actually get offense in. He was a big star on the independent scene when I was coming up and very instrumental in inspiring me to keep going. He’s developed Hodgkin’s lymphoma twice, and we just got news last week that he’s in the clear again, so he’s beaten it twice. But especially in this economic time, two times fighting cancer, the medical bills are piling up, and this is a guy who not only has his own family, he’s taking in foster children. That’s the type of character he is. So this is a community of wrestlers coming together to put on a show, and 100 percent of the proceeds are going to Chuck to support his family.

Fred: It’s a tremendous cause. I interviewed your good friend Mick Foley a little over a year ago, when he was promoting the benefit show he put together for you. How much did that inspire you to help others?

Shane Helms: I’ve always tried to be involved in good community programs. Even in WWE, it’s the stuff you don’t hear about, the stuff that will never make TMZ. You get a ticket for jaywalking and that’ll be all over the place, but if you do something good, you never hear about it. When Mick and everybody stepped up to help me out, that was huge in my life, but I think I would have done this for Chuck no matter what. My old tag team partner from the OMEGA days, Mike Maverick, my partner in the Serial Thrillaz, approached me about the idea, and from my standpoint it was a matter of reaching out to Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy and a couple of other talents. I had the easy job, because so many people volunteered. The hardest part was telling some guys no. I’ve never seen this many guys volunteer to work a free show.

Fred: It’s a reunion of sorts for the Hardy Boyz, too.

Shane Helms: We wanted to put it under the OMEGA banner. Fans have been clamoring for us to do something again, but we never really had time. Jeff is massively busy in TNA. It’s the first time in years Matt and Jeff have been in a ring together as a team, and it’s going to be an eight-man tag: me, Matt, Jeff and Cowboy James Storm. I’ve known James since Music City Wrestling in Nashville, before Shannon Moore and I went to WCW. I put out a word for him back then to try to get him into WCW, and I wouldn’t speak up for anybody, even a friend, if I didn’t think they had talent, because then the company won’t trust your judgment. He volunteered for this. It wasn’t even me asking. He’s truly a class act.

Fred: A fan wants to know where the Jan. 15 show in Durham is and whether it’s sold out.

Shane Helms: Tickets are still available. Ringside kind of went, but it’s a high school gymnasium, so there’s not a bad seat in the house. It’s at Northern Durham High School, and we chose that location because that’s where Chuck went to high school, so it’s going to be a homecoming for him. Everything’s out of pocket with me, Mike and Chuck’s brother, so we’re going to go in the hole a little bit, but I’m fine with that. This is all for Chuck.

Fred: You came back from a motorcycle accident about a year and a half ago that almost took your life, and it seems like you’ve got a new lease on life. How have things changed for you?

Shane Helms: When you come that close to dying, I think it would change anybody. I tell my friends, when the Grim Reaper’s got you on speed dial, it changes your perspective on everything. I was bleeding out on a soccer field. I didn’t know how bad my foot was hurt. I was just concerned for my girlfriend, who was on the bike with me. Luckily she just got knocked out pretty good. I honestly wouldn’t have been able to deal with it if she’d been seriously hurt. My foot was nearly severed. Both leg bones were broken right above the ankle, and the foot was smashed, thankfully not beyond repair, but the doctor couldn’t count the breaks. There was worry whether I would ever walk again, then whether I’d walk normally, and a massive chance I would never wrestle again.

And it was all my fault. I kind of wish I had somebody to blame, but I don’t. It’s humiliating, especially when you’re an intelligent guy, to do something so stupid. You put your face on the dartboard, and everybody’s throwing darts at you, and deservedly so. But maybe because I had nobody else to blame, that pushed me to climb out of that hole. And there was a bright side. I was laid up all those months, and next thing you know, my beautiful woman is with child, and months later we had a beautiful little boy.

Fred: Congratulations, man. You’ve also developed some pretty kick-ass apps with Figure Four Apps.

Shane Helms: I like to say I’m ahead of the curve. I was on MySpace first and Twitter first, before any of the other guys. I was trying to explain Twitter to WWE, like, “This is going to be really big,” and they weren’t hearing it. That’s how WWE is at times. Unless they hear it from a third party, they don’t believe it. Now you can’t go 15 seconds on that program without hearing about Twitter. I knew apps were going to be big, too, but if I gave them that idea, there wouldn’t be a Hurricane app. It’d be a John Cena app. They’ll snatch an idea in a heartbeat. So I waited. I’d plateaued, and I wasn’t happy on that ECW show anyway. When I left, things fell into place. We just finished an app for truTV’s “Lizard Lick Towing.” I’m making money with my fingertips and my brain instead of landing on my head, which is always a plus.

Fred: Around that time you started “Highway to Helms.”

Shane Helms: That’s the one thing I didn’t forecast. We just did over 2 million downloads on iTunes. It was the idea of Jeff Katz, a big Hollywood producer and a close friend. He wanted to do a video podcast with MMA and wrestling, and his pitch was he just wanted me to be me. I’d never done a talk show, and I was like, “What am I going to talk about for 30 minutes?” Then 30 minutes goes in a flash, and next thing you know you’ve been talking for two hours. When iTunes put out its top 10 list, we were in it all the time, beating the official UFC podcast in our category. I’m getting sponsors now, so I might have to downplay the F-bombs. When I get passionate and animated, they just fly out like birds.

J. George: So is Shane Helms going from TV-14 to TV-PG?

Shane Helms: I don’t think I can be PG. My brain doesn’t work like that. People always say the Hurricane was a superhero, so he was a PG character. The concept might seem PG, but I’m not certain I necessarily was.

J. George: Fans of comic books get delved into the world of superheroes, and you had your sidekicks as the Hurricane. Do you remember a guy named Brian Cage? I read he was going to debut as a character to feud with you on ECW.

Shane Helms: I sure do. I just wrestled Brian Cage a couple of months ago, but that’s the first time I’m hearing that. If you bring in another superhero, you’re watering down my character. You don’t need two Undertakers or two Stone Colds. Even with my sidekicks, Molly and Rosey, I’d tell them they couldn’t do my pose, because then I’ve got to do my pose. Every time a new creative person came in, their first generic idea was, “What do you think about a supervillain?” Of course I’d thought about a supervillain. I’d been a superhero for 10 years. But I came in as a heel, so I kind of came in as the supervillain. Are they just going to do my gimmick?

Fred: You’ve been doing some work for Lucha Libre USA.

Shane Helms: I had a great idea there. Everybody wears a mask, so I thought, “I’ll go take my mask off.” What made me stand out in America for 10 years was being the mask guy. But it was very strange. The crowd knows Shane Helms and Gregory Helms, but they wanted that mask on me. We’d do skits where I didn’t have the mask on, then I’d come right back out in the exact same outfit, except with the mask, and the reaction was 10 times better. After WWE I wanted to create at least a new look, but Lita and Mick Foley told me, “You’re fighting the grain. You’re the Hurricane. That’s who you are.” Something I never thought about much was how many masked American cruiserweights popped up because of the success of the Hurricane. Very humbly, I’d say me and Kane are probably two of the most famous masked American wrestlers of the last couple of decades. I don’t include Rey, because he came up from Mexico.

Fred: The Hardy Boyz went through a lot of adversity, and they’ve been back on the come-up, with Jeff winning the TNA title last year. What are your thoughts on their comebacks?

Shane Helms: Jeff somehow found a fountain of youth. He actually looks younger now than he did five years ago. As Booker T would say, he’s in the best shape of his life. Everybody’s got detractors, but Jeff goes out there and delivers every single time. The charisma that guy has, I wish he could bottle it, because I’d buy a couple of bottles myself. You can tell he’s slowed down a little, but the matches are smarter now. Matt dug himself into a little hole, and because he’s such a competitor, he had to go deeper than anybody else. But he’s fighting hard on that comeback, and like me, he has nobody to blame but himself, and I think he takes responsibility.

Somebody asked me recently if I look at myself as a role model. Sometimes you don’t want to be, because you want the freedom to live your life, and if you make a mistake, you don’t want it in every newspaper in the country. But when you’re in the limelight, bright or dim, people are going to look up to you. The most honest answer I ever gave was: I was one at one time, then I wasn’t, and I think I’m going to be again. I think Matt’s in that same boat, and Jeff is a role model right now.

J. George: Does being in the public eye, where a jaywalking ticket ends up all over the news, put pressure on you guys?

Shane Helms: It does put a little added pressure on you. I had it a little easier than Matt and Jeff because of the mask. When I had the green hair, I could put on a hat, pull the brim down and sneak around the mall. When you’re really recognizable, your freedom’s out the door. The first syllable of celebrity is “sell,” because that’s what you end up living in. As the popularity increased, I’d have to go shopping at 2 or 3 in the morning. I live in a small town with a Walmart down the street, but I’d go at 2 or 3 in the morning just so I could get my shopping done in half an hour instead of an hour and a half. People would show up with the green hair, and some even showed up at my door. Fans are the best part of what we do, without a doubt, but a small fraction can take it a little out of bounds.

Fred: You started out with 3 Count when the boy band thing was huge, and you did a lot of great work revitalizing the cruiserweight division. Did they have a plan for that?

Shane Helms: One of the bad things about being 3 Count, and I loved being 3 Count, was that Evan Karagias was good at getting heat with his 12-pack abs, and Shannon at the time was only good at the flips. Even though I could do the flips, if Shannon and Evan are out there doing flips, somebody’s got to be the meat and potatoes of the match, and that got relegated to me. That isn’t the stuff that gets the oohs and aahs, so for a while Evan and Shannon got the hype. But the boys in the back started recognizing that I was the worker of the group, and the company picked up on that. Jimmy Hart was the main reason 3 Count even happened. Me and Jimmy wrote the theme song together. We pitched creative on Jimmy managing us as the third member, and they liked it. But a few weeks later at a pay-per-view, they said, “We’re thinking about breaking you and Shannon up.” I wasn’t on board, because we were starting to gel really good, but then they said, “We want you to be the cruiserweight champion, and we’re going to center the division around you.” I was like, “All right, sounds good to me.”

Fred: What was your favorite match from that period?

Shane Helms: The match that really started to separate me from the pack was at SuperBrawl. The early part wasn’t good. A couple of guys blew about seven spots in a row, and it was ugly. It was an elimination match, I was going to be the last guy standing, and it was going to start the Sugar Shane push. I remember being in the corner going, “Oh my God, these guys are messing up everything.” Luckily it all came back together, and the last three-quarters of that match are really good. My first pay-per-view match with Chavo, the one I didn’t win, I like better than the one where I won the championship. And the Starcade ladder match. How many guys can say they stole the show at Starcade? I put together probably 90 percent of that match, and I worked really hard to make sure everybody had a fair share of big spots. The only thing I regret, and any wrestler should take note: When we grabbed that contract, we should have stood up there and posed for the money shot. We jumped right down, because they were rushing for time. It might sound small, but a couple of seconds wasn’t going to hurt.

J. George: I’ve got to ask about that ladder match. At that time, WWE was blowing up with TLC and the Hardys’ ladder matches. Was there pressure to make it stand out?

Shane Helms: That was part of trying to do something different. That’s why we built the bridge. I called it the Skywalker, because when I was younger there was a scaffold match between the Road Warriors and the Midnight Express called the Night of the Skywalkers. Of course, Jimmy Yang was 18 and Shannon was 19, so they had no idea what I was talking about. There was pressure. Our first ladder match, at New Blood Rising, was probably the best in WCW history at the time, but it wasn’t up to par with what Matt, Jeff, Edge, Christian and the Dudleys were doing in the WWF. There might have been a little birdie in the back of my mind trying to compete with those guys, but mostly I just want to do the best I can do.

Fred: WWE just agreed in principle to a deal with El Generico. We’ve seen Daniel Bryan get over, and CM Punk is the solid No. 2 guy behind John Cena. You had a great career despite the size disadvantage in the land of giants. If you were coming up in WWE today, do you think you’d have even more success?

Shane Helms: Maybe so. Every lightweight in the world was watching me back then, and you can still see moves I invented used in WWE. I was the first little guy to come out in little tights and kickpads, and I remember the whole locker room making fun of my skinny legs. Now that’s what everybody wears. Me and Punk got to lock up in the Survivor Series match in 2006, Team DX against Team Rated-RKO, and I have no doubt I could have rolled with those guys. People ask why I wrestled so differently as the Hurricane than as Gregory Helms. You ever go to a stand-up comedy show and see the comic break out a dramatic role? No, because that’s not his role. My role as the Hurricane was comic relief. I won 22 amateur gold medals, so I could wrestle if called upon, but the fans wanted the pose, the thumb and the chokeslam, and that’s what the office wanted.

Fred: As Gregory Helms, you were the longest-reigning cruiserweight champion, including the WCW title history.

Shane Helms: Yeah, that was pretty cool. I think the kiss of death for that division might have been when I wrestled Rey Mysterio while he was the world heavyweight champion. I’m probably 5 inches taller and 45 pounds heavier, and we’re standing chest to chest, me with my little gold belt and him with the big gold belt. It looked silly, but it was funny at the same time. That run as Gregory Helms was my best in-ring work. If they needed somebody to look good, they called me. I remember a spot in an Undertaker match. You can YouTube it as the highest chokeslam ever. They needed Undertaker to look vicious, and I said, “I got it.” I came back through the curtain to a standing ovation from Vince, which you only get every now and then. Undertaker is in my top five of all time, not just best big man, best, period.

Fred: I did a feature on the most underrated wrestlers of all time, and your name usually came up near the top. In 2006 you won the cruiserweight title and had a long run, and then you suffered a neck injury. Had you not been hurt, do you think you would have gotten close to the main event level?

Shane Helms: I was definitely on my way. I think me and Chavo were going to be the tag team champions next. They felt I’d outgrown the cruiserweight title. I would have liked to bring that title up even higher, but they thought I was bigger than the division. Me and Chavo started teaming, and I had a bucket list moment at WrestleMania 23 in Detroit. The opening match was me and Chavo against Ric Flair and Carlito, with 80,000 people out there. I’m a Carolina boy, so you love Ric Flair if you’re from North Carolina and know anything about wrestling. I remember being in the ring at WrestleMania with Ric Flair and thinking, “Man, I could just die right here.” I didn’t have any egos. I wanted everybody to have their best match with me, whether I was going over or not. That can bite you in the butt, because if you get too good at making other people look good, that ends up being all you do. But fate and my neck bones had something else in mind for me.

Fred: A fan wants your thoughts on the state of professional wrestling and the oversaturation, with a three-hour Raw, SmackDown, Main Event and three-hour pay-per-views every month.

Shane Helms: I think it’s still in a good state. The level of talent is very high. This isn’t bitterness, just an observation: WWE used to be where you went when you were the best in the world and ready for prime time. Now it’s where a lot of guys start their careers, fresh out of developmental and nowhere close to ready. I’m glad you mentioned El Generico. I’ve been saying it forever on Highway to Helms. Why don’t they go after guys who are already ready? Generico should have been on TV years ago. WWE is always going to be the top wrestling brand, especially in revenue, but I’m not certain they’re the best company as far as putting out wrestling matches. Oversaturation is a problem. That three-hour Raw gets tedious at times. I watch it for my podcast, and getting through three hours feels like work sometimes. But they’re still making money, and USA is still happy.

Fred: A lot of amateur wrestlers who in the past would have gone to WWE, guys like Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin, are transitioning to MMA. Do you think more college wrestlers will go to MMA over pro wrestling?

Shane Helms: I think it might, because MMA gives amateur wrestlers a goal now. I started amateur wrestling in 1988, and back then, if you didn’t go to the Olympics, there was nothing to do with it unless you could be a pro wrestler. Now MMA gives those guys somewhere to go, and I think amateur wrestling in America is picking up. I think amateur wrestling is the most difficult sport and the most honest sport, because when you’re out on that mat by yourself, you can’t blame the quarterback or the defense. It’s all on you. My first couple of years as a pro, I’d still do amateur tournaments on weekends I wasn’t wrestling. In 1991, when I had my first pro match, there was no cruiserweight division, no Rey Mysterio, no Hardy Boyz. It was my skinny little butt out there fighting for my life every week, and a lot of bigger guys tried to bully me. You gain respect. It’s a hard way to gain it, but eventually it comes.

Fred: A fan wants to know how you feel about Chael Sonnen. A lot of people say he might be the best talker in the business, and he’s not even in pro wrestling.

Shane Helms: Without a doubt, he’s the best talker in MMA, and I don’t think No. 2 is even close. He’s got the gift of gab, and he’s talked himself into a championship fight he doesn’t deserve on a sporting level, but on a ticket-selling level he deserves it, because he’s going to put butts in the seats. You need guys like that. Everybody can’t be Georges St-Pierre, all nice and polite, because that gets boring. You need Nick Diaz and Tito Ortiz. Tito has talked me into thinking he’s going to win a couple of times, and I can’t believe I listened to him again. As for Chael in pro wrestling, he’s got the charisma and the personality, but amateur guys have bad habits to break. I still can’t sleep on my back to this day. Any amateur wrestler will tell you, you fight so hard to stay off your back that you can’t sleep on it. I’m 38 now, and I’m kicking out every 20 minutes.

Fred: One Ultimate Fighter who was in pro wrestling and kind of bombed was Tank Abbott, and you did some funny work with him. Could he have been a decent pro wrestler if he hadn’t been booked so awkwardly?

Shane Helms: He wasn’t going to go to the Power Plant and train. I asked him why he didn’t, and he said, “They pay me. They know what I can do. If they want me to do more work, they’ve got to pay me to do more.” I was like, “Got a point.” I would go out of my way to be better, but Tank was like, “I ain’t doing that.” He was so limited in the ring, and that was more on WCW. The way the angle was first presented to me, he was still going to be the badass Tank Abbott, but for whatever reason he loved 3 Count. That actually happens, really tough people who like weird music. He’d carry our bags and still knock people out when he had to. If you see a guy tearing walls down and then he takes his headphones off and it’s boy band music, that would make me afraid of him. But somehow it got switched, and he started bullying us, and that wasn’t funny, because everybody was beating us up. It lost its way.

Fred: The story of your career is getting knocked down and getting back up, and Chuck Coates got knocked down a couple of times but kept fighting.

Shane Helms: Either one of those times Chuck had Hodgkin’s lymphoma, he could have left us. Luckily he’s still here. I want to throw out a few other names: Steve Corino volunteered, and Gunner and Christian York from TNA, Cedric Alexander and Caprice Coleman from Ring of Honor, Reby Sky and Amber O’Neal are all on the show. It’s a star-studded card for a great cause, and if you can’t make it, you can donate. It’s going to be emotional for us, too. When Mick Foley did his show for me, I was trying to be tough and not get teary-eyed, but it gets hard, especially for somebody you love. We all love Chuck, so we’re going to keep it positive and uplifting.

J. George: You’ve got the Green Lantern headphones on. How much Green Lantern swag do you own?

Shane Helms: It’s all gifts. People give me Green Lantern stuff all the time. I like the Green Lantern for what it stands for, willpower, more than the character. In my first wrestling tournament I was 103 pounds, and in football I was the smallest guy on the team, so willpower was a big part of my life, pushing on when people told me I couldn’t do it. That’s the whole reason I got the tattoo.

Fred: Before we get out of here, can you leave us with one piece of advice for people dealing with adversity? Your story is very inspirational.

Shane Helms: I think the truth comes from within. You can’t listen to other people too much. There are noes everywhere, but you’ve got to look inside to find a yes. I was never supposed to make it. I was too small. I heard no 10,000 times, but all it takes is one yes. Literally, all it takes is one yes. At the end of the day, you’ve got to look at yourself in the mirror and ask if you’re happy with that person. Money comes and goes. Who you are as a person should be your biggest goal in life.

Fred: Shane, thank you so much for the time. We’d love to do it again after Chinlock for Chuck. Folks, if you can’t make the show Tuesday night, you can definitely donate. Until next time, everybody enjoy the matches.