The Story Won’t Die: Artists of Syrian Revolution by David Henry Gerson

In this interview, we discussed the documentary highlighting the artists of the Syrian Revolution the story won’t Die by David Henry Gerson and afterwards we hear from him and his team for a special q a following the new York city premiere. Luckily I’m an artist. So I have space to use my memories tripoli waiting for the ship trip to turkey swag whatever that was amazing. It was shocking for them to see Syrian refugees they are like rock stars. They’re coming from the sea I saw the effects of war on me when I started doing music and art. I couldn’t resist that temptation to scream against the whole history of syria against the whole establishment.

That is called syria art can talk about politics, but politics can’t ever talk about art it became like a wave of people living 12 million out of the country and the regime’s still I’m theirs of what we did this amazing movement that throws out of nothing. All those thoughts they will never arrive to my brain if I didn’t had that Charlie well, David the man behind the story won’t Die. Thank you so much for joining us an incredibly powerful documentary about Syrian refugees in particular the ones that you highlighted who are making a positive impact. Why was this the story to tell and why is this the right time to put it out.

I don’t know. I mean, my family has been refugees for generations on the border of ukraine and poland is sort of where my father-son family comes from they’ve gone back and forth my father was born a refugee. And seen that the Syrian Revolution and the Syrian civil war afterwards. Was the well, not the Revolution, but the syrians of war was the largest displacement of people since world war ii just really got me paying attention. And I just felt I had to do something and you know, when you initially think of refugees, you know, maybe you think of like a unicef ad of a mother with a starving child in her arms and of course, that’s a true story, but there’s many other faces of the refugee experience.

And so this film became kind of my way of in a way come and understand what my father’s experience was like and coming to really understand what is the Syrian experience like and beyond that what is the artistic process in looking at some sort of trauma horror war like what? We’ve seen in syria. And so who are the, you know, the picassos or the Bob dylan’s coming out of syria making music making art that really gives voice to the trauma that has happened there over the last decade definitely and how did you narrow it down to those select few artists. We started despite even like a large search and then it came down to whose work.

We really liked initially and sort of what one person would lead to another we brought on a co-producer abdel aziz alhamsa who was in matthew heinemann’s film city of ghosts and while I was very much interested initially and what does it mean to process war. He was also telling me about what his name to protest war and he introduced us to people like abu hajar the raptor whose lyrics gotten imprisoned and tortured by assad. Diallo brisley who’s an animator an illustrator who we did a talk with shepard ferry the artist and activist and when we premiered at hot docs and shepard sort of compared her work to being like a trojan horse her work is very playful and childlike and yet.

That’s sort of the entrance point. But once you get into the work you realize, you know, she’s sharing the horrors of war with the world in a way that maybe people turn off and stop paying attention at a certain point. And hopefully these kinds of artworks can really reanimate that people and reawaken people to what’s going on. You’re no stranger to filmmaking and tackling some really tough and heartbreaking topics, but was there anything that personally surprised you that you learned in the process of making this? I think I as an American really came to appreciate freedom of expression and you know we talk about it in the us, it’s in the constitution and you know, but we don’t it’s hard to appreciate it until you meet someone who’s been tortured for a lyric like the Driver of this car is weird.

You know, something as seemingly inane as that or liking a music video or a drawing on Facebook that can get you tortured arrested. To me that was a real eye-opener and certainly you can read about some of these things. But really speaking about it in depth with some of the people in the film. Really really got me to appreciate freedom of expression and realize how important it is and how important it is to safeguard it. Do you hope this film does in terms of its positive impact obviously it’s shining a light on the on this major crisis, but I mean you mentioned ukraine and your family and everything.

And it’s great that these days it seems like a lot of ukrainian refugees are going to have the resources available to them, but unfortunately that hasn’t always been the case with Syrian refugees or refugees in general from the middle East or haiti, you know, Mexico the lit the list goes on and on. So, what do you hope this documentary accomplishes. Not just spreading awareness, but also reminding people. Hey, these guys are human, too, I think that for sure. I think there’s kind of two two elements here. One is, you know, I started making this during the previous administration United states and there’s been a lot of politicians around the world.

And rhetoric against refugees against immigrants from around the world. And I think the first step is to say okay, wait a minute who are these people. You know, if a building is bombed inside of that building are going to live film critics family of artists, you know, politicians, you know, the full spectrum of human life and media and some of these people. That have been through these horrific experiences my hope is by introducing some of these people to western audiences. That when we think about closing the door. So to speak, we first can see the face of who’s on the other side of that door and realize that we too anyone could be put in this situation.

You know, anyone can become a refugee at any time really whether we like to think so or not. And I think if we can realize the shared humanity and understand who these people are we may be in a better position if we’re ever put in that same situation. So that’s one is really, you know, on a policy level on a humanity level realizing this, you know, shared experience. We all might have and how people have processed it the other is for anyone who’s been through this sort of experience. To be given hope and to be given inspiration by these artists who have not shied away who have really done the very difficult in some cases impossible work of looking into the darkness that they’ve come from.

That is that hope that sense that you know, one can make something out of their horrific experiences to me is personally one of the most inspiring things I’ve learned from people in this film. And I hope audiences around the world will feel the same the resilience that was shown throughout the film definitely awe inspiring. But of course, you’ve mentioned, you know, the political situation and everything and the right, you know, the rapper being jailed and tortured. I mean, was there any thing that you had to leave out of the documentaries the right phrasing, but was there like a line you had to walk to be careful and sensitive to all the parties some of them are technically still in danger absolutely.

I think first off we really try to avoid politics as much as possible. And it’s really much more about the human processing of war. And certainly any personal details or anyone was still back in syria, we really had to be careful in that regard. To make sure that everyone felt safe, you know, I don’t want to make a movie and put anyone in danger. So that stayed out and you know, it’s only 83 minutes. So there’s a vast war that happened over 10 years and a lot of very important very fascinating nuanced information and I think there are many other films that are really brilliant documentaries about syria that maybe tell you more about the nuances of what’s happening in syria still today and what has happened over the last 10 years this film is more of a step back maybe about how to process and what that journey looks like, you know over time.

From a broader perspective. So a lot of details that got omitted the final product is absolutely. Fantastic. But I would imagine with a film of this undertaking, you know, took a whole lot. What was the most challenging aspect of making it I think making a sort of smaller independent film like this takes a huge amount of endurance. And just I feel that you know, staying believing in the work that you’re doing if anyone is trying to make a film like this and you know, just keeping that endurance to make sure that you get it through make sure you get it to audiences. I feel that’s the ultimate responsibility of a filmmaker.

Yeah, I mean, that I think was one of the biggest challenges just making sure that we can keep on pushing keep on pushing and you know, we edited it throughout COVID and started at film festivals that were online, you know you hit roadblocks along the way and you have to believe as a filmmaker that what you’re doing that has a purpose and should be out there in the world. If you didn’t believe that you would never go through the years that it takes to make a movie. Yeah. So, I think that was probably the biggest roadblock, of course, people could check it out June 21st on all major platforms for video on demand including apple Amazon Prime video vimeo and on world refugee day of all days, which I’m assuming was deliberate.

Right? Not an accident and we want to get chatter on a positive note. You’re an accomplished filmmaker award winning this documentary, itself has been critically acclaimed for good reason for any young aspiring filmmakers watching or listening to this, especially those that want to work with this kind of serious subject matter and tell it in a responsible way. What’s the best piece of advice you give them. I think you have to take care of yourself when dealing with these sort of subjects. They’re very hard and it may be that you don’t realize that my previous film dealt with world war ii and I ended up sort of my body collapsed after the shoot.

You know, I think you have to realize that you’re walking into very delicate territory. And both to have utmost respect for the people the story. You’re telling, but also respect for yourself along the way to make sure. You’re treating the storytelling holistic whatever that means. And yeah, you mentioned your body like shutting down. So when you’re dealing with stories that have a lot of trauma. I mean, you’re kind of experiencing that second, you know, third hand like what steps have you taken to kind of stay mentally clear and focused and not let that overwhelm you because it’s understandably, you know, very sad subject, you know of the artists in this film.

And I, you know, one of my favorite lines in the film is one of the artists as we’re talking tired of being lab rats for documentaries. Because they’ve been in a lot of you know, bbc and cnn interviews and in other documentaries. There’s sort of a humor in the film one of the artists jokes and says, you know, this is what a refugee artist looks like walking down the street. There’s a humor, in those who talk about their own trauma. And I feel in making a story like this you have to have a certain amount of humor, in the same kind of way because otherwise it’s overwhelming.

It’s just too difficult. So I think, you know, taking the time to enjoy yourself enjoy your company and be able to have a sense of humor about your work is very important. And in one line or less. Why should people watch the story won’t Die to meet some inspiring brilliant creatives who are looking at the worst world worst war. We’ve seen as far as duration at this point since world war ii the story won’t Die is a documentary that chronicles the lives of nine Syrian artists who are using their art to speak up against the assad regime, but also now to process their trauma of war and having to now redefine their collective identity their artistic identities and to integrate into a life away from home.

So with that said, I’ll jump, right into my first question. This is a question for all of you when did you know, you had to make this film. I’ll start us off. I yeah, I made a short film called all these voices. That was my thesis film from film school and that was a film about artists really after world war ii giving voice to the second world war and that won the student academy award in 2016 and there was a short documentary about lesbos and about the Syrian refugee crisis and I just felt my father was born a refugee after world war ii. In uzbekistan and I just felt I had grown up being told stories of exile and never forget certain stories of exile.

And so when I saw that this was the worst since world war ii. It just felt like I have to do something and then fortunately I met odessa. I guess I was at a sort of transitional moment in my life and a friend of mine who’s an artist called me up one day and said that she was in contact with a Syrian refugee who is in azeroth camp and she’d gotten a bunch of these messages from artists and she was coming to new York to write the messages around new York and I just said. I want to document it and that was the first documentary that I ever made.

And when I was finishing that and sort of fascinated by these conversations that I was having with these artists that were stuck in azeroth camp on the border of syria and jordan I met David and we sort of felt like it was synchronistic and tried to expand the project which became that four years later here we are and thankfully we met aziz because he really kind of cast the film and helped us shape. What we were looking for out of our subjects? Yeah, I feel like they said, everything. So I came across like in the I would say like in the middle of the process and it’s like I as I always say like I’m not in the film industry?

I care less about it, but when I heard like the story involved. Like it’s involving Syrian Syrian artists I needed to make sure that the story is like well known put out. So because I’ve come across. So many reports and documentaries were made about syria and most of them. They just focus on the fact that there are like Syrian refugees in the story, but all those like people like the artists they have like a message as you’ve seen like in the documentary. All those people are like politically involved and that was like important for me to show to everyone because so many people like whether to go like in the West or like White people would prefer not to be politically involved, which is something I dislike.

So for me, I needed to make sure that those people have their political views and like messages what they’ve been through on their struggle that they’ve been like expressing through art. Well, shown to everyone and in that same vein, the film opens with alan gerson’s quote. It is not what you think about a person when they’re gone. It is what you create inspired by them. And so what are some action. What actions do you hope audience members are inspired to take after watching the story won’t Die what audiences do you hope that this film is watched by and what is an immediate immediate action item that audience members here today can take after leaving this theater?

Yeah, I mean the so the quote was my father’s quote. And weirdly, I just realized his his birthday is June 19th. And he was dying as we were editing the film and I was leaving to go to California. And I said, dad, I’ll be thinking about you and he very looked me in the eyes and said, it’s not what you think about a person when they’re gone. It’s what you create inspired by them. And so obviously there’s some very personal aspects for me of making this movie and sort of my relationship with my father and kind of coming to understand his origins as a displaced person growing up and I think though that message of to create for me is why I’m grateful for having made this movie these are people in this film who very easily could just say.

I don’t want to look to the darkness that I’ve come from these are people who actively say I’m willing to look into that darkness and from that to create and not to see myself as a victim. But to build from the experiences that life has given me and for me. That’s I can’t really think of something more personally inspiring to me. So I think as far as action items go to http://www.thestorywonde.com where you can click on the artists tab and you can follow all the artists in the film. You can go to their band camp their soundcloud. You can go to their concerts, you can go to their exhibitions support these artists support artists like them who are doing this kind of difficult work.

Yeah, go to at the story won’t Die on Instagram and celebrate them. And celebrate this kind of work. I think that’s the most direct action item. I mean, I would have to add to that though that I think the core of why I make any film in my life is to try and make the world even smaller in a way that we can see and feel and connect to people that we wouldn’t otherwise connect with you know, I mean the iraq war was something that affected me very deeply the way that we could go and you know, just bomb another country like that and go to war and obviously continues on ukraine.

We’re dealing with currently, but I think that films like this and every film that I make I hope it just helps everyone. You know, see someone that they wouldn’t necessarily feel anything about or like a Syrian refugee was something that was so I don’t know just a reliable a lot of cliches about what a Syrian refugee is or when you saw them on the street, especially in Europe. We weren’t as affected by it here and I wanted to humanize what this is and I think that the action items is in your own life do that with like we that’s what we all have to do in today’s world.

So that’s I think the for me was these I would say like everything they said mainly like to tell your friends. So the documentary would be playing like this week like five times a day like here. So cinema village. So it’s like just some personal like spread the words like the main reason why I got involved? It’s always to let people understand what’s going on. So like in such conflict. So many people they get lost and for them. They would always say that. Oh, okay. It’s like a 10 year conflict or whatsoever. It’s hard for us to understand documentaries has made things way easier for people to sit for like an hour 90 minutes and watch what’s happening and having an idea about what’s happening.

So, it’s all about awareness for me just like spread the words tell your friends and like most importantly that those people are like human like everyone else. So some like media publications outlets have kind of like put them in a different way. They were like, so me talks about like refugees yes or no, whatever as we’re playing a game. So I just like to ship like a different aspect about those people in their life that they’re like normal people and even like the way how anus was saying like hey, I’m a refugee I’m walking down the street. So, it’s like the way home you was like, oh my god.

You’re a refugee as they’re like a Pokemon or something. So, it’s just like a different way to let people knows like, you know, like, you know, all things that you might have heard of media or other places completely different. So that’s like one of the main reasons plus like the most important thing for me as someone is like the political stand and everything. So many people they try to stay in the middle and not take a side about like everything happening and in such situations this show like the creator of like the main problem. Why there are like refugee crisis where people are likely in their countries.

So that was also like the number one thing that I was like pushing to show for everyone. I would add to that also it’s going to be released digitally on so monday’s world refugee day whatever that. But the next day it’ll be released around the world. On itunes Amazon for questions from the audience. Let me ask you about the title of the documentary, the story won’t Die, how you came to name the documentary and in fact. How it relates to abu hajar’s verses, I should mention, too. Like my initial interest in this movie was how can we process war, how can art be used to process the horrors of war and when we met aziz.

He really aptly pointed out art is also used to protest war and through aziz. We met abu hajar the rapper in the film who says hello and wishes. He were here right now and we had a very phony first title of this movie phoenix it was called initially. Yeah. And we saw in abu hajjar’s lyrics of his first song. He says, you saw it there that madeline’s dead, but the story won’t Die and I think that to me. Just we were sifting through titles and we’re like, oh, that’s it. You know, so and I think that goes back to the thing about creating and you know, when politicians are gone.

Hopefully these artworks live on and for me. That’s the most hopeful thing. You know, the reason to really to create this is so powerful and eye-opening and educational. I just wanted to ask what was the hardest part about making this and were all of the artists excited to do it were some of them a little more reluctant for personal or other reasons. What was your experience kind of going through it the question of what was some of the challenges of making the film with really working with some of the artists in the film and you know, I like one of my favorite lines in the film is you know, we’re tired of being lab rats for documentaries.

Many of them have done a lot of documentaries and have been with a lot of journalists on bbc and cnn and been celebrated and talked about as refugee artists and a lot of them were very reluctant to be in a movie about quote-unquote refugee artists. We don’t even really use the word refugee and talk about the film in general. Because some of them haven’t even applied for refugee status. So certainly one of the biggest obstacles was just I mean my goal was to like make this an intimate hangout with some friends. And fortunately we found like what I feel are some of the coolest people out there.

And so of course, there are many other great. Artists out there. But you know, this was sort of a small sample a very totally different mindset. From religious to not religious from wealthy to poor. And I think the challenge also was just fighting against cliches fighting against being lab rats for documentaries and you know, ultimately this is a film about storytellers. This is a film about people who are struggling to find a way to tell their story in their various mediums. And so balancing that and working with them to craft the story. I think that was just the hardest part of it, I would also add that the other hardest part.

I think was when we first started it because our first shoot was on lesbos in morya refugee camp and it’s considered hell on earth by like many news outlets and just being thrown into the conditions that these like people like you and me are stuck in for months and watching them go through the process of every month going and getting a Red stamp on their piece of paper, which means. They can’t go on and watching their journey over two years like even kids that didn’t end up in the film, but just staying in touch with them and you know, falling through the cracks and not getting a refugee or asylum status and understanding the background that they’re coming from and having to work illegal jobs at almost like slave labor wages and sleeping on the streets.

And it’s been absolutely heartbreak Breaking. I think all the following all the kids and the people that I met and through finding like our subjects there’s a like I said, there’s a bunch who didn’t end up in the film who’ve had incredibly challenging journeys since meeting them. I think that’s been very hard. Thank you. Yes. Hi. Well, thank you for the film reminds the normalcy of life like the quest for having a normal life making work work being the most important thing. And for people’s sanity. Well, from whatever respect whatever they go through and the film definitely puts that forward as the message that you guys been telling me like this is the artists and their lives and I fall into sometimes myself to go going into the stereotypes thinking like the word refugee and everything.

I’ve read everything that I’ve been exposed to I have a certain thing that I have to break that I have to keep on Breaking and the film definitely. It’s like a hammer yes nuts that breaks it breaks and I’m curious if the film brought some of these artists together or they knew each other before both a bit of both. Yeah, I mean when we first met abu hajar he and anas were just starting a collaboration. So, we really tracked that collaboration as they were going on. I think he knew medhat but certainly we but not as well. Like we were like we said this is a beautiful field at temple hoff and it’s now springtime and golden light and let’s go.

You know, talk about your music video that, you know, so there were certain mild ways that we knew of each other other than shadow the one guy who’s in refuge in another the netherlands and the ba the breakdancer. He didn’t know any of them. He we met in moria at the refugee camp in greece and sort of followed him from there? Yeah, I think that thank you any other questions. Yes, the question was, which story for each of us from the film and who we met resonates the most. I mean, I love an anas I’d probably make a whole movie about a nus because he’s such a character.

I we I wanted to make a whole movie about enos, but he was like, no, I don’t want to be in your documentary. I was like please no, no. But yeah, he’s hilarious. And I keep in touch obviously I see him every time in berlin comes and hangs out on my current sets or whatever. It is great guy, but is there something about his story. Yeah. Just that he I think that the way that he like looks at it all the way that he you know what he like if you look at his Instagram. I think that the way that he has turned like his journey into his art.

I find the absolute coolest he pulls just different aspects and mixing it with the modern world and the past and his pain. I find his work to be the most inspiring and I would encourage all of you to dig through his Instagram. He’s unfortunately taking a lot of it down. But it’s just it’s I’ve never seen like visual arts like this on like a social media platform. He’s it’s just brilliant every little drop. And he then he goes, and he takes it off because he’s like that was stupid because he overthinks it. Yeah, as he says he welcomes us to his room, you know, here’s where I overthink like his music is so good.

So when I heard his music. I was like, here’s someone who’s so talented, you know, and that is like truly when you see like the journey they’ve come from what they what the challenges. They’re facing, but the talent they have like it’s so frustrating. You just wanna he’d love to come to the states can’t. You know, for me one of the, you know, I grew up being told all these stories about like surviving survival and even having been through the worst possible circumstances, how still you would fight with your family or still have to you know, stupid little small human things. And amongst those was losing faith in god.

And hating god and being angry at god and there’s a story of medhax that really reminded me of my grandfather where he says that he was you know, sleeping on the side of the road and thessaloniki and part of his years journey from syria to berlin and he said. No, you know, god is dead and it’s done. I am my own god going forward that I will not be a victim that I will take these circumstances and make myself into the greatest artist I can be I think for me that was really like one of the most moving and inspiring moments in the film. Okay, the thing is like I kind of know all of them besides shadows.

Oh, you have to pick one. Yeah, I the thing. I’m like, I would say shadow because it’s like the only one that I didn’t know at all. So, he’s like the only one that I didn’t know at all and I remember I was like in amsterdam and like I contacted him and he’s so young like at that time was like 18 19. He’s so young. So there was like an edge gap. So, I went out with him and he started like dancing in the middle of the street and the crowd that he was able to bring in like two minutes. It was crazy. It was insane for like an 18 years old just like dancing in the middle of amsterdam unlike the crowd and then when you when I was talking with him like in my mind.

I was like looking at this 18 years old like Boy dancing in the middle of amsterdam. Everyone’s looking at him cheering him up and then we went like to eat and he started talking and he was talking as like a 50 years old guy. So that’s like the difference that you can tell like what he’s been through like his family situation. So and like I’ve come across. Like so many like kids like 17 18. Like when I go like to give talks especially in schools. They’re like in two different spaces like people they are like I was like snapchat Instagram cookiesticktalk like whatever and for him like he can give you like a political lecture for like one hour like three minutes later.

He’s dancing in the middle of the street. So for me that was like the only like fascinating character person that I’ve kind of like was so excited to meet and you know, the others are like all great all amazing. I kind of know all of them. Like we did hang out we traveled whatever. So I’m not gonna name them. So, you know, but I would say like shadow it was like the outstanding like character in the entire document for me. Yes, I have one it’s short. Is there why only nine and why as many as nine is the reason for the number of artists. Yes.

It’s a very holy spirit. No, no. There were other artists who had interviewed the question was why this many artists, it just was the way it worked out. We had interviewed many several other people and just, you know, even even eight nine. You know, it’s just hard to balance. But no, there wasn’t a real as far as I know secret reason to the number any last questions. Before we wrap up just say something they come from greece and the story of morya was really important to us there in the first few years people were very receptive and taking care of their refugees. It was they were positive towards the end like two years ago, it was why have you come here.

We didn’t imprograte you go back. It was it wasn’t nice and it’s still not nice. I have to say that because I have been involved with refugees for like 20 21 years back in starting from crete when the first ships started like boats started coming this was the first time that I ever watched seoul something and that I did not cry, which means a lot about this film because it brings light and a positive perspective and it definitely breaks stereotypes. So, thank you very much for this feeling that you brought to me. This is sort of the end of a year of us traveling the world with this movie and I just want to personally say.

Thank you all for coming here tonight and that yes. I want to say something. Yeah. This is my story like the story of the screen I’m Syrian on asylum in the United states and I’m part of the Syrian Revolution. I usually come to Syrian refugee movies irritated because there is a White director who think we should be grateful and then the film is racist and I can’t say anything because we should be grateful. He is covering syria or she is covering syria. I’m not talking about symbolized water for example. So here. I came and I’m like, I’m gonna like it or I’m gonna kill aziz later.

We’re gonna be I really enjoyed every aspect of it the political agency of us that usually wanna wipe these people wanna make us like suddenly something happened to us. And we became in the u.s we became in Europe and we should be happy about it? So in every aspect even in showing asylum as heavy. And as the country’s policies towards refugees as something that is not to be celebrated. So in every aspect of it. I was really glad and I was like, what do I want love the scene. Yes. So, thank you so much for that? Because it means a lot to sit here and watch it and I wonder why abu hajar or anas did not come to the screening.

And I if the reason is the ban the American visa. I hope you mention it and screenings over and over sometimes people think because those are artists. We can’t bring them here like this and they don’t know that yeah, they’re gonna sit in the airport for six hours of security screening even if they are artists or whatever. You can’t even get enough visa. Yes. I think this is like you didn’t give him any better visa. No, we wouldn’t be able to no. Yes. Abu hajar has a visa. He’s got his past he just became a german citizen. Oh, yeah. December. So he could have traveled, but he’s come to lots.

So he was like, and he was performing at a huge festival last weekend and it was a little too much. But thank you. But no, I don’t think we would have been able to get any of them. A visa because it’s so difficult, you know, yeah. So difficult I know can I settle yes. This is yeah, well as david’s mother I’ve seen this several times and I was really struck tonight how with all that we’ve all been through and our sympathies. I hope with ukraine that this movie is really something that will live on it says the problems of refugees and people that have gone through war and that it’s a human problem.

And I think we can all it seems I identified with it much more than before and you know, I’m just so glad that you did it. So I just want to take a selfie of all of us together here come on now odessa over here real quick aussies everyone get in there. We have a nice full crowd, thank you. Everybody three two one heck. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.