Penn & Teller Music Director Mike Jones on Jazz Career, Vegas Life

Fred: What’s up everybody? This is Fred Richani. We have right here via Zoom a very special guest. He is Las Vegas’ own Mike Jones, renowned jazz artist, long-time music director of the legendary Penn & Teller show here in Las Vegas, and of course known worldwide. We’re here to talk about his illustrious career, his lovely cat in the background, and of course his upcoming album. Mike, thank you so much for your time. How’s everything going?

Mike Jones: Oh, everything’s going great. Couldn’t be better. Thanks for having me. And yeah, Ella’s doing a fine job there keeping us entertained in the background. But everything’s going well and the show is going great. I’m very happy.

Fred: Well, we’re very happy to have you on and obviously we want to dive into your career, all things Penn & Teller as well, but you do have a new album coming out and at the time people probably will listen and watch this already out. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what you have going?

Mike Jones: Oh, it’s called Mike Jones with Strings. And it was recorded here in Las Vegas at Vic’s. It’s right across the street from the Smith Center, Vic’s, and it’s a wonderful jazz room. Wanted to do a record with these two guys for quite a while. The bass player and draw and guitar player both work for Jeff Goldblum, the actor. He has a jazz band called the Mildred Snitzer Orchestra. And I’ve known the both the two of them for oh, many years now. And we got together a couple years ago in my house and played and made a little record for Bandcamp and it went really well. And so the label that I’m on, Capri Records, started pushing me to do a an album with the two of them.

So not everybody this is a little arcane for this conversation, but there’s not a lot of piano, bass, guitar albums made anymore. But in the 1940s and 50s that was a real popular group. Piano, bass, and guitar. Now it’s always piano bass and drums. So, we decided we wanted to do like a tribute to old Nat King Cole music and Oscar Peterson trio and Art Tatum trio. And try to you know, try to put a modern spin on all that stuff. And the cover was done by David Silverman from The Simpsons. Who has done my last five album covers for Capri Records. And he does a wonderful job. It’s really he gets he manages to get everybody’s personality right in there.

He got my He got everything about me in there. So, anyways, so that’s yeah, that’s all going on. I’m excited. It was just submitted for two Grammys. Best jazz instrumental and best album cover. Which I’m hoping The Simpsons guy can win.

Fred: Well, that is awesome. We’re definitely looking forward to hearing that album, streaming that album, of course. And you’ve also been with Penn and Teller for over two decades now and done great work with them. And I’ve a feeling y’all want to close out 2026 in a big way.

Mike Jones: Well, yeah, no. I mean, everything’s going to be good. We’re doing We basically have finished the 50th anniversary tour, which ran for 2 years. And we’ve got a few more dates coming up in November in Denver and I think Vancouver and Portland and a few other places. But then you know, as of 2027, we’ll be back at the Rio all the time for the next year at least. We’re signed at the Rio through the end of 2029. And they keep writing new new tricks. They’re doing a new season of Fool Us. Their show on CW network, which has been on for 14 years. You know, it never ends. I mean, they Penn’s working on it.

It’s got a play being produced. He’s got a new book he’s working on. You know, And so, yeah. And me in the meantime I’m you know, I’m putting this record out. I got another record that I recorded the same night with a different group coming out in probably the spring or summer of next year that I’m we’re going to push a lot and that’s you know, yeah, trying to keep busy.

Fred: You’re definitely keeping busy and you’ve had such an incredible career doing this for four plus decades and been with Penn and Teller I believe now for what over over 25 years that at least?

Mike Jones: Well, 25 years in February, yeah, and yeah, I was just telling somebody earlier today that I started playing the piano when I was about three. So I’ve been playing the piano for six decades. But yeah, I came to Vegas in 1999 and I was going to leave and Penn said why don’t you play in our show we’re going to be at the Rio full-time and I said I’ll give it a try. I said what do you need jazz in a magic show for? And he said well, I want to play bass with you every night. He plays upright bass, and so we did that, and it worked out, and they’ve had me with them ever since.

And then they said, “We got a new trick going in we’d, like we’d like you to write some music for it,” and “We got another trick, you know.” And so that’s been I’ve written over 70 pieces of music for the show over the years and it’s just it’s, always they’re always writing new material. It’s really amazing that at this point in their career that they’re you know, coming up with some of the best things they’ve ever done. So there you go.

Fred: Prior to getting to Las Vegas and connecting with Penn Jillette, what was your life like? Like how did you grow up? I believe you’re from Buffalo.

Mike Jones: Well, yeah, yeah, it’s…I was…I went…I grew up in Buffalo and went to Berklee College of Music in Boston. And when I got out of Berkeley, I started working with all the guys that were my teachers at Berkeley, Herb Pomeroy and Dick Johnson. And, those guys playing there, were a million places to play in Boston at that time, because every hotel had bands, you know, from 5:00 to 9:00 and 9:00 to 1:00. 7 nights a week. So, there was easily 50 or 60 places that had live music when I was in the’80s when I was when I was going to school there. So, I got a job at the Ritz-Carlton playing 5 nights a week. And then I got a job on a TV show in the mornings, and then I started doing a lot of studio work and was going back and forth between New York and Boston doing, playing on TV and radio commercials.

And I think it was early ’90s, I got a place in New York as well, and I would spend half my time. I was doing a lot of running around. I would go down there, do some sessions, and then come back to Boston to play a live gig, you know, for a Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Then, go back down on Sunday Sunday afternoon after playing a brunch gig, go down and work Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday in New York. And it was a lot it was a lot of traveling back and forth and a lot of but as the years went on, I signed with a label called Car Scarecrow Records, which had recorded a bunch of my heroes and in ’93.

And as time went on, the studio work kept getting less and less because ad agencies started doing all the music in-house. So, from an ad agency’s idea to pay a kid at a, you know, with Garage Band I mean, whatever what Garage Band was in the’80s, you know, a Synclavier and that to pay one kid to compose stuff in a room and lay in phony trumpets and violins and everything was a lot less expensive for them than to hire Steve Gadd and, you know, Will Lee and George Young and all the first call guys in New York and pay thousands of dollars an hour for them to record these things. So, as the years went on, by the end of by closing out the ’90s, the whole studio scene had sort of just dried up.

A lot of the independent studios had closed, and a lot of guys had just hung it up, and there just wasn’t any work. So, I decided to come out to Vegas with a singer that I knew from New York. We had done some cabaret type gigs, and jazz gigs, and she knew a guy out here in Vegas that she had worked with years before, and they supposedly got us a gig at the Paris Hotel when it opened in 1999. And so, I shipped I had my New York apartment and my Boston apartment and everything all packed up and shipped it out to Vegas, only to find out that the agent lied to us and had never signed the deal.

And so, that was interesting. And so, I you know, I got some work and hung out, and was really kind of disillusioned with the scene cuz I’m from coming from New York and Boston where there’s a lot of jazz and a lot of things going on, and there really wasn’t here. So, I thought I would move to Chicago where I had a pretty good following. And I had a an offer for one night a week at this famous jazz club there, called the Green Mill. And that’s when Penn approached me and said, ” why don’t you play in our show?” And that’s how I wound up staying.

Fred: Great way to land on your feet, right?

Mike Jones: You’re under duress, you’re like, “Oh my goodness, who screws you over?” Yeah, I mean, I was down to eating off the favors of friends. You know what I mean? At that you know, I was like it was like, “Oh, I guess, you know, oh, Joe wants to go out and get a sandwich. Good, I’ll eat this week.” You know? But yeah, it was pretty white-knuckle for you know, cuz I moved out here, I had a little bit of savings and stuff, but there was no work. I couldn’t, you know, and it was just month after month of paying bills and nothing coming in, and I didn’t like that.

Fred: I can imagine. So, did you know Penn before you got to Vegas or did you guys connect when you were there?

Mike Jones: There’s a great jazz pianist named Oscar Peterson who I was fortunate enough to know and study with. And a guy from Chicago who Neil Tesser was writing liner notes for a special edition of an Oscar Peterson record. And he called me up and he said, “What can I write about Oscar that nobody knows or nobody talks about?” So, I talked to him for about an hour. Well, the record comes out, the CD comes out, the special edition, and the liner notes are all about me as the heir apparent to Oscar Peterson and all this nonsense, right? And I mean it was very flattering, but you know, certainly not true. And so, I get a call one day from this magician named Mike Close who’s a jazz pianist and great close-up magician.

And he said, “I just bought this Oscar Peterson CD. Where are you playing?” And I said, “I’m playing the worst gig of my life at this restaurant.” And I said, “If you want to come, you know, I’m I’ll be there.” He said, “We’ll be there tonight.” And he showed up with Penn. Who I had like bumped into in a recording studio in the 1980s, but I didn’t know him, you know what I mean? And they were very polite and nice and I wound up hanging out with them after I finished my set and I was while they were eating and we and I was making a record here in Vegas. They were coming The record company was flying in from New York and Kawai I’m a Kawai artist, so that Kawai was sending up this $200,000 concert instrument from Long Beach for me to record on along with a technician from Japan from Kawai to make sure it was in tune.

And I invited them to the recording session just to be polite. And they showed up and Penn and I hit it off and we started hanging out. And that’s you know, that was in May of 2001 and in December he said, “We’re going to be at the Rio full-time, you know, do you want to play?” And I said, “Sure.”

Fred: How have you guys all been able to adapt over years with just like the different changes even just in the way people consume the show outside of the live environment.

Mike Jones: Well, you know, Penn & Teller were never it was always sort of a good priced show that a family could sort of afford, you know? They were never like a top tier starting at $350 type show like some of the Cirque shows and stuff like that. But certainly the crowds over the years have gotten smaller because of the amount of tickets that are now for sale every night in Vegas. You know what I mean? It’s when we started I mean I’m making these numbers up completely out of whole cloth, but when we started there were maybe 15 to 20,000 seats a night that needed to be filled in Vegas. And now there’s like 100,000. And again, there are actual numbers that but it’s five times the amount of people of seats that they’re trying to fill every night.

So, when you get a family that spends over $1,000 to take their two kids to see something at the Sphere in the afternoon like The Wizard of Oz where if you take them to see that show, you’re not going to have a lot of extra money to then go out and see another show that night. And so it’s, you know, I think it’s all sort of I you know, I all of the all of the I don’t know anything about business, but I know that all of the it seems like everyone’s cannibalizing everyone else. But Penn & Teller have enough of a name and enough of a presence like you know, so many people come to Vegas well, in the old days it was you came to Vegas to wrap up your career.

But Penn & Teller and some other acts have proven that’s the wrong way to look at it and, you know, they’ve been here for 25 years with a show on Showtime and a show on CW for years. So, the fact that they’re so visible means that we are not suffering nearly as much as many other acts in town. Our counts are not what they were pre-pandemic, but no one’s are. But, you know, we’re do we’re going along just fine, you know, and it’s but it’s yeah, it’s so different. When I came out here in ’99, there were n- there wasn’t this idea of residencies and headliners that come in, you know what I mean? There were like, you know, people would come in for a week at Caesars or they would come in for a week, you know, or any dates.

And over the years, that’s changed to this whole idea of, you know, sitting down for 3 months in a space and I it’s just a yeah, every everything’s different. And also, I think that I don’t know if I should I don’t know I don’t know I shouldn’t pontificate on this cuz I don’t really know anything about it, but it seems like there’s this idea of selling Vegas to real high rollers. And they’ve sort of got regular people have sort of gotten lost in that mix, you know what I mean? There’s not as it’s not certainly not it’s not economical anymore. No matter what people say, you know, $20 for a bottle of water is absurd, you know?

And most people can’t afford that. So, I don’t know but I hear these all-inclusive things are helping and things are going to change, but they’re going to have to change because there aren’t that many high rollers out there. You know, Vegas is run you know, Vegas runs on regular people coming out to have a good time. And, you know, not all of them can afford the $5,000 or $10,000 caviar service, you know? So, I don’t know what, I don’t know, but it’s I mean, but again, it never ends. It’s I talked to a guy that moved here in 1951 who was in the Curbstone Four. And I said to him, this is probably in 2000, 2005, again, at a time where the house that I’m living in right now, this whole 17,000 home the southwest part of Vegas wasn’t even built.

And I said to him, I said, I don’t know if it can keep going. He said, they said the same thing in ’61, ’71, ’81, and ’91. It just keeps growing and growing. So, I’m sure Vegas overall will be fine, you know. But it’s, you know, it’s been very strange the last well, the last couple years especially. But I’ve said too much.

Fred: And you guys have certainly adapted. So, would you say, because of Penn & Teller’s approach to keep things accessible and affordable, and on top of that with you as a jazz musician, like jazz shows continue to be kind of, you know, more accessible and grounded grounded forms of entertainment where everybody can come in and enjoy? Do you feel like that’s allowed you in particular and by extension Penn & Teller to still go strong all these years later?

Mike Jones: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, it’s a very different, the jazz world is very different. From the showbiz world. And I mean, you know, Penn & Teller are, you know, at the heights of show business and entertainment. You know, they’re there was a I play, you know, I play at the Green Mill every year. I have a Friday and Saturday night, which I’m playing in September this year. And they’ve been very generous and the money’s always good, both places always packed, and, you know, they charge a like a I don’t know, what, 15 or 20-dollar cover, and they more than make up for what they pay me and the band. And everything works. And if people things sort of work on that level, then it’s really good.

But, if you want to start charging $250 to see the Mike Jones Trio, I’m going to starve. You know what I mean? There’s just not that You know, it’s Yes, it’s very different to be a part of two different genres almost. You know what I mean? Cuz I know guys that are playing gigs My first gig in 1976, when I was 14 years old, paid me $50, which was fine money in 1976. And I have heard of musicians in New York going and playing gigs for $50 in 2026. And I mean, part of it is, you know, they have to. But, you know, I hoped I like to think that most of the time they’re okay they’re good musicians that make a good living that are just doing this on the side because it’s fun to play with the guys that they’re playing with.

That’s my little fantasy idea of it. But, the fact is, who in their right mind says in this day and age that we’re going to pay you enough to buy a hamburger You know what I mean? And something to drink. It’s just it There was a great I always go back to this cuz it’s one of my favorite images. Yeah, and you can find it online, but there was a show I the show Breaking Bad. There’s a scene in that show where they’re standing behind pallets of millions and millions of dollars in cash. And Walter White says to the his little sidekick, he says, “We had a pretty good night tonight.” And his sidekick turns to him and says, “Don’t forget we still got to pay those musicians 100 bucks a piece.”

You know, and that’s I mean, it’s amazing. I mean, in what world is what you paid in the 1970s the same as you pay today, you know? But so I don’t luckily I’m in a very unique position with Penn and Teller that I don’t have to worry about starving and eking out a living playing jazz clubs and things like that. But I also won’t I won’t take a gig for less than I feel I’m worth cuz I don’t have to. And I also don’t want to take work away from someone that really needs the work, you know? So it’s very, you know, it’s a yeah, it’s a long deeply philosophical thing that I’ve gone on here, but yeah, it’s a strange it’s a strange time.

I just, I, want I mean, there’s so many kids in school, you know, in college, that are studying and they’re great musicians, and they’re not getting the opportunities that I got. You know, when I was when I was coming up, it was like there was always gigs and always places to play, and there’s just aren’t anymore. I can name three rooms in Vegas that have jazz, you know, in a city of over a million and a half people or whatever it is. I mean, that’s not enough, you know, that to support that aspect and even live music in general. When I came here in ’99, every single lounge and every single casino had music from like 1:00 in the afternoon till 3:00 in the morning; just different bands that “show bands” they called them and they would play pop top 40 hits and, you know, and have little dancing along with them and all that stuff.

Every room. Every every hotel. You went in the Mirage, there were three different places having live music at the same time. The Bellagio had the lobby lounge, it had the poker lounge, it had the Fontana bar, all with music all night, you know? And that’s all gone. So, now I’m sounding like modeling old man. Oh, when I date, there was music everywhere. But it’s I worry that it’s going to get less It’s going to I mean jazz is you know, sparse enough as it is. You know what I mean? It’s low enough on the radar in the totem pole. And I’m afraid that in 10 years it may be, you know, reduced to you know, even less.

I hope not, but I get I hope not. Well, I mean, to be very optimistic, there are enough young musicians that are so good that it’s never going to go away. You know what I mean? I just would like them to have a chance to make a living at it. Because it’s you know, there’s nothing worse than going to a CPA to get your taxes done and he’s also a great John Coltrane type saxophone player. You know? That I mean, it just depresses me. I feel like more people if they could would do art full-time.

Fred: So you wish them the best, but I also think people are kind of longing for community and being together.

Mike Jones: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, going to a record store and running into a person that tells you about a record you never heard of. That doesn’t happen on the internet. You know what I mean?

Fred: And that whole Yeah, the whole sense of community and bookstores and record stores and going to see live music with people that are enjoying it along with you instead of sitting at home listening to it on your headphones or your AirPods, you know?

Mike Jones: It’s I think it’s starting to come back a little bit. You know, they’re Now they’re get this insane thing which is listening rooms.

Fred: Have you heard of this?

Mike Jones: I have not, no. It’s like people go to like lounges where they have curated selections of jazz or music and they listen to the records together. And it’s like how about you just hire a few live human beings to play some music for you know? But it’s you know, it’s very strange. But anyways, that’s enough of that. I’ve talked that to death. Everything’s good. And you know, I’m sure it will be great. But I’m hoping to hit my peak in another 20 years.

Fred: Well, you know, I think everybody does get their money’s worth when they check out Penn and Teller and when they check out, of course, Mike Jones that live as well. And your album and albums, plural, since…

Mike Jones: Well, yeah, I’ve got many, many albums out, but just go to jonesjazz.com. It’s but and then, you know, and in addition to all that, I mean, I don’t know how much I’ve talked, but in addition to all that, there’s the podcast, The Stereo Image.

Fred: Which Love to chat Love to chat with you about that, since you’re not only a great guest here and a great artist, but also a great interviewer.

Mike Jones: Well, it’s I’m learning, you know, I mean, we’ve done over 50 of them. And it came as, you know, Jen Jennifer Zabor, who put us together, she came up with this idea, said, “Why don’t you should do a podcast?” And I said, “About what?” Cuz, you know, there’s not any podcasts out. I could be right in on the cutting edge. And you know, and we just decided that the idea was to just talk to people that we admire that may not be famous musicians, but or may not be famous at all, but music is an important part of their life and the kind of stuff that they listen to. So, we talked to Bob Corn Revear, who’s a First Amendment attorney, who say he got the pardon for Lenny Bruce after he died, you know, many years after he died.

We got, you know, we got famous, Hollywood, TV writers, and again, David Silverman from The Simpsons, who plays the tuba, who’s done my album covers, you know, and we just get as many people that we find interesting that have interesting stuff to talk about. And it’s fun. It’s really fun. The stereoimage.com has got everything. And I’m always learning as I’m sure you are in your position. You learn more about people than you knew, obviously, which is the whole point of doing it, but also you learn how to get people to open up. I mean I’ve had, you know, I there’s a there’s an there’s a musician I know who’s like “Well, I want the right to edit anything that I say on your podcast if I don’t like it.”

And I said to him “This isn’t 60 Minutes. We’re not trying to like get you into a corner. I want to get on and talk about how much fun you have playing and how much fun you have and what you like to listen to. There’s no gotcha questions, you know? So, I’m learning to just, you know, just like lighten up and have fun and as you can tell I can talk.

Fred: You’ve been working with people for many years and performing and at the end of the day what you do on the hosting side is it’s just another version of performing, you know?

Mike Jones: You’re being yourself, but you’re turning the volume up a little bit, no pun intended.

Fred: And you know Welcome to your humble abode, right? That is your podcast.

Mike Jones: Right, yeah. No, and it’s and again, I really really enjoy doing it, you know what I mean? It’s really fun. And I look forward to, you know, I look forward to knowing that someone like…I got to do, I got to do a great interview with I don’t even call it an interview, just a conversation with Leonard Slatkin, who’s a, like, one of the top five conductors in the world in history, orchestra, orchestral conductor. And he, you know, he had all these amazing stories. You know, he’s in his 80s now, or close to his 80s, and he grew up in Hollywood in the 40s and 50s. In the 50s and, Marilyn Monroe used to come over to his house cuz his parents were these big orchestrators and musicians in the Holly, in the Hollywood String Quartet.

So, he’s like telling me Frank Sinatra came over and Art Tatum came over and all these legends that he grew up with, you know? And he’s, you know, I mean he’s one of the most recorded conductors in history, you know? And I just love learning about this kind of stuff, you know.

Fred: We always like to ask our guests some random and rapid-fire questions just to get to know them a little bit better. Are you ready?

Mike Jones: Okay. Sure.

Fred: All right. Favorite spot in Vegas? Could be a place to eat, a place to…

Mike Jones: Esther’s Kitchen. Oh, sorry.

Fred: Can you say that again?

Mike Jones: Esther’s Kitchen. Esther’s Kitchen.

Fred: Okay, where’s that at and why do you like it?

Mike Jones: It’s downtown. It’s I think one of the top I think it’s the best certainly the best Italian restaurant in Vegas. I think it’s one of the best restaurants anywhere. James Trees is a genius chef that runs it and owns it. And it is it’s Italian food but unlike anything you’ve ever had before. And he also has a French place called Bar Bo Em that opened up that I haven’t been to yet. But he also took over the steakhouse at the top of the Rio called High Stakes. And that I went there and it was amazing. But he But Esther’s Kitchen, man, you cannot go wrong. It is it’s just the most insane food that I’ve that you can get here.

This is not the Bootlegger, you know what I mean or I mean nothing wrong with the Bootlegger, but that’s like traditional red sauce, you know what I mean? This is way gourmet in insane and really and no no no real pretension or anything that turns you off, you know, it’s not like a it’s not like a really high-end atmosphere. It’s downtown. It’s relaxed. Everybody’s there to have a good time, but the food is amazing.

Fred: I’m adding that to the list. I’m definitely going to take the definitely going to take the missus there. So, thank you for that recommendation.

Mike Jones: Sure.

Fred: All right. And I think you already mentioned it, but since you’ll perform at the Rio for ages and will continue to perform for at least the next couple of years there, what’s your favorite spot in the Rio?

Mike Jones: The Penn & Teller Theater. No. Well, I mean High Stakes would be at the Rio the best place with bar none. But I But there’s another place like down in the lobby that’s good that used to be the All-American Grill that they rebranded and it’s perfectly serviceable, but you’re not going to get any better than High Stakes even with the cheesy name. See, cuz it’s up on the top floor and they serve steak. Makes sense. And then in gambling, you’ve got high stake. See, it’s genius. Oh man.

Fred: Well, not only do we interview artists, not only do we interview actors, filmmakers, all that jazz (no pun intended), but we also cover video games and a lot of people that work in video games, and I saw a little tidbit that you were somehow involved in a little game called Borderlands 3.

Mike Jones: Yeah.

Fred: One, is that true? And if so, can you tell us a little bit about it and your involvement?

Mike Jones: Well, if you go into Moxxi’s bar in Borderlands 3, that’s all my music. And there’s a long story associated with it, which is I’ll pare down as well as I can. The guy Gearbox Software is owned by a guy named Randy Pitchford. And Randy Pitchford’s relative, I think it was his uncle, was a famous magician called Cardini. And Randy Pitchford supported himself in college and high school as a magician. And then he started Gearbox Software. And but he never lost his love for magic and he became obviously incredibly successful with Gearbox and built a home in Texas with a huge theater in it to bring people in and perform at. And Randy’s good friends with Penn and Teller and I’ve been friends with Randy for over 20 years.

And when he, I don’t know how it happened, but he either sold half of…he still is Gearbox, but somebody else came in, some big conglomerate, and with the proceeds, a tiny bit of the proceeds of that, which was a, as you can imagine, not a small deal. He bought the Magic Castle in Hollywood. The entire He bought the castle and all the land that it was on. So that no one could ever put it out of business because the castle had leased that land. And they could have been, you know, they could put in condos someday. They could rip it down. And he thought it was too important. So he bought it, which I think is one of the most altruistic things anyone’s ever done that comes on a lot of Elvis got some noise to You know what I mean?

I mean, if I like to think if somebody handed me that kind of money, I would do something that cool with it, you know? And So anyways, we were backstage one I you know, this is probably I don’t know, 7, 8 years ago now, and he said,”I really want some of your music in Borderlands.” And he said may maybe maybe Moxxi’s bar. And I said okay. So their composer called me up and [snorts] and said you know, this is the feel we’re looking for. So I wrote three different pieces of music for it. And they liked it very much and put it in the video game. So there you go. I’m down with the kids with the video games.

Fred: That is awesome. Have you played it?

Mike Jones: No. I don’t I the last video game I played was the car racing game that was on the Wii.

Fred: Would you like to kind of contribute to more I guess out of the box projects like that?

Mike Jones: Yeah. I mean, I’m up for anything. You know what I mean? I mean, I also love the idea of and this is getting into weird philosophical stuff too, but I love it when something they step outside the box and do something that’s diametrically opposed to what Like you I like to I like it when everything’s electronic and EDM or whatever, but then suddenly there’s solo acoustic piano. It’s like that you know opposition makes me happy, you know, and I think it’s something that I’d like to explore at some point, but you know, I love that idea of completely artificial and then completely acoustic even if it’s just an acoustic guitar or something that you know, everything gets stripped down to that and you go oh, yeah, and you know, it’s a nice thought.

Fred: The wolf wolf the man still has tonight I’m sure he’s if he’s still in his party gearbox he probably still has connections to 2K. So listen, if you want us to make a petition to get Mike Jones jazz on one of the GTA 6 radio stations, let me know. I’ll be happy I’ll be happy to help you with that.

Mike Jones: All right. Well, yeah, I mean I just saw Randy last week and he has these shows at his house in Santa and in it’s outside of Dallas. I forget where he lives, but he’s got this gorgeous house with a theater in it and they have these calls it the Peacock Theater. And they have every month or two they have you know, 10 people come in and put on a show. And he has like you know, kids from kids that are disadvantaged and people like that he gives away tickets to all these people and they get to see a real variety show. And so I’m probably going to go back. I’ve done it a few times.

I’ll probably go back out and do that in December and but yeah, Randy’s Randy’s a dear dear guy. He was on my podcast too and it was again one of my first guests. It was so great to hear him talk about all his thoughts on where music is now and what electronic stuff is and how he uses music in his video games and you know, there’s a lot of stuff there.

Fred: What’s your most awkward moment as an artist? Could be something wacky, crazy that happened in the moment that makes for a good story now.

Mike Jones: Well, I can tell you one that I’m not proud of. Which is not I mean it’s nothing it’s just funny. So I was in we were on Broadway in 2015. We did 3 months on Broadway and I was going out every night to see live jazz in New York because why wouldn’t you know? And so I my friend Neil Tesser who wrote the liner notes on the Oscar Peterson album that inadvertently got me the gig with Penn and Teller, who’s a very dear friend of mine. Neil is one of my best friends. Him and his his his girlfriend Genie live in Chicago. They came to New York to see us to see me on Broadway.

And to hang out because right before the Broadway gig my dad had passed away. And he was also friends with my dad. We were all tight. So they came they said, you know, we’re going to come it’s your birthday week. We’re going to come to New York and see you. And so I got him tickets to see the show and we went out and we so I went down to Smalls I think it was. And he said, yeah, he said that Kenny Papawski’s playing with Matt Wilson on drums. And I’d known Ken Papawski I knew him since the 1980s. And I said, oh great, it’ll be great to see Ken. I haven’t seen him in 10 years.

And I said and I always wanted to meet Matt Wilson. I said, Matt you know, Matt Matt Wilson is unbelievable drummer and he’s like one of the darlings of the NPR jazz crowd like, you know, he’s won like Peabody Awards and that kind of whatever. I don’t know, I’m making that up. But he’s a big shot, right? And you know, he won like I don’t even got a Guggenheim, but you know, some kind of fellowship and so he’s very important, very heavy drummer. And I said, you know, I said to Tesser who knows everybody cuz he’s used to work for all these jazz times and all these magazines. I said, I you know, can you introduce me?

We’re on the set listening to him. So that when he break I said, can you I’d love to meet Matt. It’d be really cool. I said, I’d like to meet him. He goes, oh yeah. Yeah, I’ll introduce you to him.” So, we walk up to the front of the stage as they finish the set and Matt Wilson jumps off the drum stool runs down the stage and says, “Mike, oh my god, it’s so good to see you. Man, how are you doing?” He gives me this big hug and he’s like and I’m sitting there like turning red. And Tessar’s looking at me and I don’t know what the language restrictions are on this podcast, but let’s just say he said you know what the several times.

And it turns out I had worked with Matt Wilson quite a bit in the 1980s at the Ritz-Carlton. He had filled in for another drummer that I had at the time and I had completely forgotten. And really had no idea that we’d worked together. And he was like, “Oh, man, I can’t wait to play with you again. It was so much fun.” And I’m like oh, okay. Yeah, man, great to see you. Yeah, you know. So, that was one of the most embarrassing things to happen to me.

Fred: That happens. Look, I’ve you meet a lot of people, especially in the entertainment industry and time flies, right? And you’re just like…

Mike Jones: Yeah, but you know what I mean? Know I know we worked together at once, but you know Well, I think it was more than once in his defense. There’s no defense for me forgetting. But no, I mean, you know, I had this gig at the Ritz, six nights a week, and I had this great drummer, Russ Gold, and then I had this other drummer, Marty Richards. And then, I think it was I think it was Marty couldn’t make a few dates and sent, sent Matt in. And we had a great time, I’m sure. But you know, I was like 23, 24 years old. I don’t remember you know, but it was still pretty funny cuz Neil Tessar just he’s like, “What is wrong with you?”

He said, “How what the You can’t be Alzheimer’s this early.” And I said, “No, I just forgot, you know.” And I But also forgot that I ever knew him. That’s the weird thing. It’s like I’ve been hearing his name for years and reading articles about him. I’m like, “Well, I got to meet that guy, you know?”

Fred: It happens. You get tunnel You get tunnel vision. It’s all good. It’s all good.

Mike Jones: If he ever sees this, he’ll laugh cuz I never told him that story. All then.

Fred: Well, we’ll get you out on a couple high notes. First off, what’s your best piece of advice for success?

Mike Jones: Don’t say no. Try not to, you know, I mean it’s a little deeper than that, but I you know, Penn Jillette might you know, I was tell I was telling him this philosophy years and years ago. And of course, Penn being Penn, he’s like, “Mike Jones, a life perfectly lived. That’ll be the name of your biography.” I’m like, that’s he you know, and we laugh a lot of fun with that, but that’s not what I’m saying is if I hadn’t said yes to the crazy idea of moving out to Vegas, I would have never gotten the gig with Penn and Teller. You know, if I hadn’t said yes to going to Berklee College of Music instead of staying around Buffalo and being a big shot that was already winning awards as a keyboard player of the year and stuff in Buffalo, I would have never taken the next step.

So, I try not I mean, unless it’s clearly a bad idea or something that could hurt me, I try never to say no to any opportunity. You know what I mean? It’s the people that shut themselves down that don’t get success because they say, “Oh, that’s not for me.” Or I wouldn’t go I mean, who the hell says it’s a good idea for a straight-ahead jazz piano player with 10 CDs out to take a job in a magic show? Especially a magic show that was like bordering with the rock and roll ethos, you know what I mean? But I mean, Penn and Teller were like cutting edge, the bad boys of magic and all that.

And all of a sudden, they’re going to stick a straight-ahead jazz piano player in the mix? And it worked great. It worked out great. And if I had said, “Oh, Penn, you know, I’m flattered, but I think I’m going to move to Chicago.” You know, I’d be I’m who knows what I’d be doing now? It might be different. But I would have had this gig that has been not only life-changing, but getting to meet everyone. You know what I mean? I mean, I’ve walked into the green room at Penn & Teller and Steve Martin is sitting there, you know? And Kevin Pollak and you know, I mean, famous famous Paul McCartney came to the show, Ringo came to the show, you know?

These people, you know, Sting. I’m walking down the hallway and this guy grabs me around the neck. He was, “Oh man, you’re great.” And it’s freaking Sting, you know? I’m not going to meet those people playing at any jazz club in the world, you know? So, it’s been a huge huge like boost to life, you know what I mean? It’s so that’s my one advice to If you’re don’t box yourself in, don’t cut yourself off, don’t say no to almost any opportunity out of a self-importance idea, you know what I mean? People people have big egos. And they think that stuff’s beneath them or they think it’s not for them. You know, take a chance.

You never know what it’ll lead where it’ll lead.

Fred: When did you get your first tattoo and what are the meanings behind like some of them?

Mike Jones: The answer is yes and no. There’s no big meanings to anything. Except the overall idea, which I’ll tell you in a second. But when I was going to come out to Vegas, I was hanging around I had gotten I had gone to this piercing place up in Nashua, New Hampshire. I’m not in Salem, New Hampshire. Because at the time, this is in the’90s, tattoos were still illegal in Boston. In the state of Massachusetts, you couldn’t get a tattoo. Because it was it went back to when the Navy was there in the 1930s and ’40s. There were some problems with hepatitis and stuff like that, so they banned it. So, to get a tattoo, you had to go to New Hampshire.

And I lived right on the New Hampshire border. Anyway, so the windup was as a going away as a moving to Las Vegas present, I got this little armband tattoo. And I said, “I like this. Why why did I always wanted a tattoo? Why did I wait until I was 34 years old? You know, and so the people that I was friends with that gave me the tattoo that, they had a friend out here that was a really well-known tattoo artist, and she had her own shop. And when I was out here realizing that, I had all kinds of free time, I started hanging out there and became very friendly with them and got all my work done there.

And this is 25 years ago. 24 years ago and, I went to Penn and Teller and I said,”Well, here.So”and the idea of the piercings and the piercings especially was I had this gig, and I won’t name the place, but it was the worst gig I’ve ever had in my entire life of playing. And I said,”I want to I want to take away the option of ever I think I’m a good enough piano player that I can make a living without ever having to resort to playing in a place like this again. And if I have a bunch of tattoos and piercings, they won’t hire me. But I can certainly work under my own name in a jazz club no matter how I look.

And I was telling Penn and Teller, you know, I said, “I think I want to get some more ta- They’re like,”Everything anything you want, you know.”They’re like, you know, we’re very supportive of that. So and then again, I wouldn’t I didn’t foresee that 25 years later I just look like everybody else. You know what I mean? Everybody has piercings and tattoos now, but at the time I knew I was never going to work at the Ritz-Carlton again. Right? And I wanted that. I didn’t want to be cuz the one of the greatest jazz clarinetists and saxophonists that led the Artie Shaw band Dick Johnson he was in his early 70s and he had a gig at the Ritz-Carlton and they’re saying,”You got to come in through the service entrance.

You can’t come in through the front door. And I thought to myself, this is one of the most respected musicians in the world and he’s playing a wedding on a Saturday afternoon at the Ritz. What is And I mean, he was doing it cuz he liked to play that much. But I wanted to take that option away for me. I was going to make it as a musician. I mean, I already had 10 CDs out. You know what I mean? It’s not like I was some unknown quantity. I knew that I could work and maybe I have to go to Europe to work more. But and I just like tattoos. And I think this, you know, it’s fun to it’s I don’t have anything that makes a statement.

I don’t have anything that makes a political statement. I don’t have anything. I just like fish, so I got fish on this arm. And you know, and this was like just a tribal thing that was reversed instead of black where all this red red, you know, it was just a good idea of a fun design. But you know, there’s no deep meaning. I just thought that the only overall thing was I’m going to make sure that I can make a living by myself without having to, you know, having to fight with people at a restaurant.

Fred: Love that and you’ve lived life your way and had a great career and continue to have success. And we’ll chat here on one more high note. For anybody that hasn’t already been convinced, why should people check out Penn and Teller?

Mike Jones: I’ve never been a big fan of magic shows. And Penn and Teller isn’t a magic show. It’s not we push out a box and something appears. Or poof, there’s a puff of smoke and there’s a Corvette on the stage. It’s not that kind of magic show. There is a huge amount of intellectual content that’s really hip. That’s why they won Tony Awards. It’s why, you know, they’re playwrights that are incredible magicians. Teller’s probably the best magic mind, one of the best magic minds alive. And Penn is one of the best talkers. And there’s comedy that’s, you know, really insightful and hip and funny. The tricks will blow people’s minds. And the jazz is good, too.

I put that in there myself. But I you know, it’s very much a catchphrase or a trite thing to say, “It’s magic for people who don’t like magic.” But it really is so much more than that. You know what I mean? It’s really a show that’s a theatrical experience under the guise of a magic show. And it’s you know, and everybody loves it. I mean, it’s for good reason. You don’t have a 50-year career if you’re average. You know? They’ve reinvented themselves every you know, they’ve done 14 years of Penn & Teller: Fool Us, and every year they do 13 shows, and they close it with a new trick. So they’ve written 14 by 13, whatever the math is, it’s more than I can do in my head.

But you know, 160-some tricks just in the past 14 years. When most magicians are still doing the same tricks they were doing 20 years ago. So it’s you know, it’s fun. It’s I highly highly highly recommend it. It’s a great place and free parking at the Rio. And you know, it’s a fun fun show.

Fred: Excellent. Well, can’t wait to check it out. Hope everybody checks out Penn& Teller. We hope everybody checks out Mike Jones Jazz, your incredible discography, and everything else that you have going on. Before I let you go, where can fans find you online?

Mike Jones: Well, online I’m at jonesjazz.com, http://www.jonesjazz.com, and http://www.thestereoimage.com. That’s my podcast and me.

Fred: Awesome. Well Mike Jones, thank you so much for talking. It was an absolute pleasure talking to you, learning about your journey, and everything from your incredible jazz career to your great work with Penn& Teller, and we’re definitely looking forward to the future.

Mike Jones: Thank you, Fred. It was really wonderful to be here. And I really enjoyed every second of it, which I never shut up for. But I’m just trying to make your job easier.